diff --git a/doc/TODO.detail/java b/doc/TODO.detail/java index 54d710743d..f96f9ab8e6 100644 --- a/doc/TODO.detail/java +++ b/doc/TODO.detail/java @@ -622,3 +622,163 @@ TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://www.postgresql.org/search.mpl +From pgsql-general-owner+M14602@postgresql.org Sat Sep 1 00:50:49 2001 +Return-path: +Received: from server1.pgsql.org (server1.pgsql.org [64.39.15.238] (may be forged)) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f814onF24433 + for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 00:50:49 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) + by server1.pgsql.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f814pNq39726; + Fri, 31 Aug 2001 23:51:23 -0500 (CDT) + (envelope-from pgsql-general-owner+M14602@postgresql.org) +Received: from ns1.austin.rr.com (ns1.austin.rr.com [24.93.35.62]) + by postgresql.org (8.11.3/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f81439f96700 + for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 00:03:09 -0400 (EDT) + (envelope-from rsanford@nolimitsystems.com) +Received: from mightywombat (cs662523-179.houston.rr.com [66.25.23.179]) + by ns1.austin.rr.com (8.12.0.Beta16/8.12.0.Beta16) with SMTP id f813x7pX027417 + for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 22:59:07 -0500 +From: "Robert J. Sanford, Jr." +To: +Subject: Re: [GENERAL] PL/java? +Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 23:02:04 -0500 +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="US-ASCII" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 (Normal) +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) +Importance: Normal +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 +In-Reply-To: +Precedence: bulk +Sender: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org +Status: OR + +note - i don't work for any of the companies whose products +are mentioned below. i have performed evaluations of these +products and the support provided when attempting to determine +what platform my company's systems should run on. unfortunately, +i did not choose orion and i am suffering for it now... + +some goober blathered thusly: +> Have you ever actually used Java on an enterprise-level +> application? Ever see the Tomcat webserver? It uses +> 100MB of memory, drives the load on our server up to 8, +> and doesn't serve nearly as fast apache. Do you really +> want that in your database? + +first - don't complain about java because you or someone +in your group/department/company made a poor decision on +what tools to use. that's like complaining about mexican +food when the only experience you have is eating an out- +dated frozen burrito from the 7-11 freezer. + +when looking at the performance of java you have to take +a look at two things - first you have to compare various +java implementations against each other and then you have +to compare the best java implementations against native +c/c++ code. the following link does that. the java tests +include tomcat, orion, websphere, and resin. jrun and +weblogic were originally included in the testing but +were both removed at their companies' request. + +the tests also compare orion vs microsoft asp running on +win2k and iis5. all tests run on the same hardware. + +what i believe these tests clearly demonstrate is that +java is not the problem, the implementation applications +based on java is. i also do not believe that tomcat is +a fair representation of java performance in that it is +intended to be a reference implementation. as such, the +code base should sacrifice performance for clarity. + +http://www.orionserver.com/benchmarks/benchmark.html + + +while not in the benchmark i would also like to +recommend jetty as an app server. it is an opensource, +100% java web and application server. in its base form +it is "just" a web, servlet, and jsp engine. it does, +however, have contributed code providing integration +with other j2ee opensource projects such as the JBoss +EJB engine. + +you can find the jetty home page at: + http://jetty.mortbay.com/ + +and then they blathered some more: +> Compare the speed of Oracle 8 with 8i if you don't +> believe me. The stability is also much worse. Ever +> see a JVM on any platform that didn't crash if you +> looked at it cockeyed? Ever really trust the garbage +> collection? I don't. I've found a memory leak in IBM +> developed java libraries. Gotta restart that app +> every once in a while to reclaim system resources it +> gobbled up and never gave back. + +some mention was made regarding the performance of +the oracle8i application server. well, oracle has +realized that their performance was sub-optimal and +rectified the situation by licensing the orion server +for oracle9i. while money and politics most certainly +play a part in any licensing arrangement they must +also realize that making customers happy through the +performance of their applications will lead to more +money. the link to the press release is below. + +http://www.oracle.com/corporate/press/index.html?759347.html + +all of that being said... + +i don't think that the person that started this thread +did anything wrong by making the request they did. that +is what opensource is all about - contributions, even +just contributions of ideas, are welcomed. even so, there +are several options that i see for getting it implemented: +1) its an open source project so implement it yourself. + while i have never worked on modifying the code base + i am extremely confident that the current developers + will be more than willing to give you advice and + pointers. +2) if #1 is not feasible either because you don't have + the time, the inclination, or the experience then + you can write a contract that will pay one of the + postgres developers to implement it for you. +3) if that isn't feasible you can try to get a volunteer + to do so. +4) if that isn't feasible then you either have to live + with what you have, go elsewhere, or be quiet. + +to the person that blathered thusly in response to the +request for java: +> Merits of the language notwithstanding, I'd rather +> not have a buggy, still under development +> (depreciating everything under the sun with every +> new iteration) JVM parasite in my DB. + +informed and intelligent debate is good. given that i +believe such to be true, i would request that you +refrain from blathering such vitriol and uninformed +nonsense. not only is it for the good of the people +on the list who don't want to hear it but it will +also do you good by not telling everyone out there +that you are a very silly person that doesn't deal +with logic and/or facts. + +to everyone else on the list - if we all contribute +a penny we could probably buy enough burritos from +7-11 to make sure that his hands and mouth are busy +for a good long while. + +rjsjr + + + +---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate +subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your +message can get through to the mailing list cleanly +