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Add MySQL file system mention.
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Bruce Momjian
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@ -345,7 +345,7 @@ From owner-pgsql-hackers@hub.org Tue Oct 19 10:31:10 1999
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@ -1006,7 +1006,7 @@ From pgsql-general-owner+M2497@hub.org Fri Jun 16 18:31:03 2000
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@ -1283,3 +1283,233 @@ in src/Makefile.custom.
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-Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org]
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"I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk."
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From pgsql-general-owner+M4010@postgresql.org Mon Feb 5 18:50:47 2001
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for pgsql-general@postgresql.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:27:10 -0500 (EST)
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From: Mike Hoskins <mikehoskins@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: [GENERAL] MySQL file system
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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:30:36 -0600
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Status: OR
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This idea is such a popular (even old) one that Oracle developed it for 8i --
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IFS. Yep, AS/400 has had it forever, and BeOS is another example. Informix has
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had its DataBlades for years, as well. In fact, Reiser-FS is an FS implemented
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on a DB, albeit probably not a SQL DB. AIX's LVM and JFS is extent/DB-based, as
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well. Let's see now, why would all those guys do that? (Now, some of those that
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aren't SQL-based probably won't allow SQL queries on files, so just think about
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those that do, for a minute)....
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Rather than asking why, a far better question is why not? There is SO much
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functionality to be gained here that it's silly to ask why. At a higher level,
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treating BLOBs as files and as DB entries simultaneously has so many uses, that
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one has trouble answering the question properly without the puzzled stare back
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at the questioner. Again, look at the above list, particularly at AS/400 -- the
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entire OS's FS sits on top of DB/2!
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For example, think how easy dynamically generated web sites could access online
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catalog information, with all those JPEG's, GIFs, PNGs, HTML files, Text files,
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.PDF's, etc., both in the DB and in the FS. This would be so much easier to
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maintain, when you have webmasters, web designers, artists, programmers,
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sysadmins, dba's, etc., all trying to manage a big, dynamic, graphics-rich web
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site. Who cares if the FS is a bit slow, as long as it's not too slow? That's
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not the point, anyway.
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The point is easy access to data: asset management, version control, the
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ability to access the same data as a file and as a BLOB simultaneously, the
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ability to replicate easier, the ability to use more tools on the same info,
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etc. It's not for speed, per se; instead, it's for accessibility.
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Think about this issue. You have some already compiled text-based program that
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works on binary files, but not on databases -- it was simply never designed into
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the program. How are you going to get your graphics BLOBs into that program?
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Oh yeah, let's write another program to transform our data into files, first,
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then after processing delete them in some cleanup routine.... Why? If you have
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a DB'ed FS, then file data can simultaneously have two views -- one for the DB
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and one as an FS. (You can easily reverse the scenario.) Not only does this
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save time and disk space; it saves you from having to pay for the most expensive
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element of all -- programmer time.
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BTW, once this FS-on-a-DB concept really sinks in, imagine how tightly
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integrated Linux/Unix apps could be written. Imagine if a bunch of GPL'ed
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software started coding for this and used this as a means to exchange data, all
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using a common set of libraries. You could get to the point of uniting files,
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BLOBs, data of all sorts, IPC, version control, etc., all under one umbrella,
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especially if XML was the means data was exchanged. Heck, distributed
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authentication, file access, data access, etc., could be improved greatly.
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Well, this paragraph sounds like flame bait, but really consider the
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ramifications. Also, read the next paragraph....
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Something like this *has* existed for Postgres for a long time -- PGFS, by Brian
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Bartholomew. It's even supposedly matured with age. Unfortunately, I cannot
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get to http://www.wv.com/ (Working Version's main site). Working Version is a
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version control system that keeps old versions of files around in the FS. It
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uses PG as the back-end DB and lets you mount it like another FS. It's
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supposedly an awesome system, but where is it? It's not some clunky korbit
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thingy, either. (If someone can find it, please let me know by email, if
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possible.)
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The only thing I can find on this is from a Google search, which caches
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everything but the actual software:
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http://www.google.com/search?q=pgfs+postgres&num=100&hl=en&lr=lang_en&newwindow=1&safe=active
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Also, there is the Perl-FS that can be transformed into something like PGFS:
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http://www.assurdo.com/perlfs/ It allows you to write Perl code that can mount
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various protocols or data types as an FS, in user space. (One example is the
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ability to mount FTP sites, BTW.)
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Instead of ridiculing something you've never tried, consider that MySQL-FS,
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Oracle (IFS), Informix (DataBlades), AS/400 (DB/2), BeOS, and Reiser-FS are
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doing this today. Do you want to be left behind and let them tell us what it's
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good for? Or, do we want this for PG? (Reiser-FS, BTW, is FASTER than ext2,
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but has no SQL hooks).
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There were many posts on this on slashdot:
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http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/01/16/1855253&mode=thread
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(I wrote some comments here, as well, just look for mikehoskins)
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I, for one, want to see this succeed for MySQL, PostgreSQL, msql, etc. It's an
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awesome feature that doesn't need to be speedy because it can save HUMANS time.
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The question really is, "When do we want to catch up to everyone else?" We are
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always moving to higher levels of abstraction, anyway, so it's just a matter of
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time. PG should participate.
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Adam Lang wrote:
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> I wasn't following the thread too closely, but database for a filesystem has
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> been done. BeOS uses a database for a filesystem as well as AS/400 and
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> Mainframes.
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>
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> Adam Lang
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> Systems Engineer
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> Rutgers Casualty Insurance Company
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> http://www.rutgersinsurance.com
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> ----- Original Message -----
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> From: "Alfred Perlstein" <bright@wintelcom.net>
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> To: "Robert D. Nelson" <RDNELSON@co.centre.pa.us>
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> Cc: "Joseph Shraibman" <jks@selectacast.net>; "Karl DeBisschop"
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> <karl@debisschop.net>; "Ned Lilly" <ned@greatbridge.com>; "PostgreSQL
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> General" <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
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> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 12:23 PM
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> Subject: Re: [GENERAL] MySQL file system
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>
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> > * Robert D. Nelson <RDNELSON@co.centre.pa.us> [010117 05:17] wrote:
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> > > >Raw disk access allows:
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> > >
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> > > If I'm correct, mysql is providing a filesystem, not a way to access raw
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> > > disk, like Oracle does. Huge difference there - with a filesystem, you
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> have
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> > > overhead of FS *and* SQL at the same time.
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> >
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> > Oh, so it's sort of like /proc for mysql?
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> >
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> > What a terrible waste of time and resources. :(
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> >
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> > --
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> > -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org]
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> > "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk."
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From pgsql-general-owner+M4049@postgresql.org Tue Feb 6 01:26:19 2001
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Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 14:15:55 +0800
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To: Mike Hoskins <mikehoskins@yahoo.com>, pgsql-general@postgresql.org
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From: Lincoln Yeoh <lyeoh@pop.jaring.my>
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Subject: [GENERAL] Re: MySQL file system
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In-Reply-To: <3A775CF7.3C5F1909@yahoo.com>
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References: <016e01c080b7$ea554080$330a0a0a@6014cwpza006>
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Status: OR
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What you're saying seems to be to have a data structure where the same data
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can be accessed in both the filesystem style and the RDBMs style. How does
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that work? How is the mapping done between both structures? Slapping a
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filesystem on top of a RDBMs doesn't do that does it?
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Most filesystems are basically databases already, just differently
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structured and featured databases. And so far most of them do their job
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pretty well. You move a folder/directory somewhere, and everything inside
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it moves. Tons of data are already arranged in that form. Though porting
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over data from one filesystem to another is not always straightforward,
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RDBMSes are far worse.
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Maybe what would be nice is not a filesystem based on a database, rather
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one influenced by databases. One with a decent fulltextindex for data and
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filenames, where you have the option to ignore or not ignore
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nonalphanumerics and still get an indexed search.
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Then perhaps we could do something like the following:
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select file.name from path "/var/logs/" where file.name like "%.log%' and
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file.lastmodified > '2000/1/1' and file.contents =~ 'te_st[0-9]+\.gif$' use
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index
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Checkpoints would be nice too. Then I can rollback to a known point if I
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screw up ;).
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In fact the SQL style interface doesn't have to be built in at all. Neither
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does the index have to be realtime. I suppose there could be an option to
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make it realtime if performance is not an issue.
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What could be done is to use some fast filesystem. Then we add tools to
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maintain indexes, for SQL style interfaces and other style interfaces.
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Checkpoints and rollbacks would be harder of course.
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Cheerio,
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Link.
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