From pgsql-hackers-owner+M4145@postgresql.org Sat Feb 3 05:54:06 2001 Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id FAA22302 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 05:54:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f13Ap4q95132; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 05:51:04 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from pgsql-hackers-owner+M4145@postgresql.org) Received: from mail.retep.org.uk ([216.126.85.184]) by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f13AnIq94863 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 05:49:18 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from peter@retep.org.uk) Received: from heather.retep.org.uk ([193.113.118.193]) (authenticated) by mail.retep.org.uk (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f13AlnO94823; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 05:47:49 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from peter@retep.org.uk) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010203103036.009efec0@mail.retep.org.uk> X-Sender: peter@mail.retep.org.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 10:46:24 +0000 To: Alex Pilosov , tomasz konefal From: Peter Mount Subject: Re: [HACKERS] TODO list: Allow Java server-side programming Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org In-Reply-To: References: <20010202194049.38902.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Status: OR At 14:57 02/02/01 -0500, Alex Pilosov wrote: >On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, tomasz konefal wrote: > > > could someone please clarify what "Allow Java > > server-side programming" actually means? what are the > > limitations of using java and jdbc with pgsql? > >It means to embed Java interpreter inside postgres, and allow writing >stored procedures and triggers in Java. Thats correct. Basically you are talking of something like PL/Java. The Java side would be simple, but its linking the JVM to the backend that's the problem. It's been a while since I delved into the backend, but unless it's changed from fork() to threading, I don't really see this happening, unless someone who knows C that well knows of a portable way of communicating between two processes - other than RMI. If that could be solved, then you could use JNI to interface the JVM. I know some people think this would slow the backend down, but it's only the instanciation of the JVM thats slow, hence the other reason fork() is holding this back. Ideally you would want the JVM to be running with PostMaster, and then each backend can then use the JVM as and when necessary. Obviously you wouldn't want a JVM in every installation, but there are a lot of good reasons to have this capability. For example, as part of the course I did this week, we used Tomcat (Servlet/JSP/Web server). Now there's no reason why Tomcat could run within the same JVM. JBoss is another good example (EJB Server). The JBoss team have actually got Tomcat to run within the same JVM. Doesn't hinder performance at all, but does reduce the memory footprint. This is a good future thing to look into (why not for 8.0 ;-) ). If we could find an _optional_ way of hooking the backend direct into the JVM, we could get PostgreSQL into a lot of new areas. It also would make things like CORBA etc a doddle. PS: I'm writing down notes of the course to go onto the JDBC web site this weekend, so there's some nice things for EJB, RMI, Corba etc. More later, Peter From pgsql-hackers-owner+M4153@postgresql.org Sat Feb 3 11:54:12 2001 Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA13446 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 11:54:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f13GrZq17345; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 11:53:35 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from pgsql-hackers-owner+M4153@postgresql.org) Received: from mailout04.sul.t-online.com (mailout04.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.18]) by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f13GnZq17000 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 11:49:37 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from peter_e@gmx.net) Received: from fwd06.sul.t-online.com by mailout04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14P5rE-0000zq-00; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 17:48:16 +0100 Received: from peter.localdomain (520083510237-0001@[212.185.245.12]) by fmrl06.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 14P5r6-0YvD60C; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 17:48:08 +0100 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 17:56:33 +0100 (CET) From: Peter Eisentraut To: Peter Mount cc: Alex Pilosov , tomasz konefal , Subject: Re: [HACKERS] TODO list: Allow Java server-side programming In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010203103036.009efec0@mail.retep.org.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: 520083510237-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Status: OR Peter Mount writes: > Thats correct. Basically you are talking of something like PL/Java. The > Java side would be simple, but its linking the JVM to the backend that's > the problem. I've tried that recently, here's how it looks as far as Linux JVMs go: * Kaffe has a very polluted name space. Calls to its own functions get resolved to PostgreSQL, and vice versa. Crash and burn result. The Kaffe folks have admitted that this should be fixed but I didn't look farther yet. * The Sun/Blackdown JVM didn't work at all (not even 'java -version') until I upgraded my libc. Then a simple test run crashes with an "error external to JVM"; at first it looked like a segfault when referencing a string constant. In gdb I saw myself faced with about 10 threads running when nothing was going on yet, at which point I was too exhausted to proceed. * IBM's offering didn't work at all. I don't recall the problem anymore but I think it didn't even link correctly. So currently I don't see how this could become a mainstream project, let alone across platforms. > I know some people think this would slow the backend down, but it's only > the instanciation of the JVM thats slow, hence the other reason fork() is > holding this back. Ideally you would want the JVM to be running with > PostMaster, and then each backend can then use the JVM as and when necessary. But how do the other languages cope? Starting up a new Perl for each backend can't be so cheap either. -- Peter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net http://yi.org/peter-e/ From pgsql-hackers-owner+M4154@postgresql.org Sat Feb 3 12:37:02 2001 Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA00813 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 12:37:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f13Haiq21225; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 12:36:44 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from pgsql-hackers-owner+M4154@postgresql.org) Received: from spider.pilosoft.com (p55-222.acedsl.com [160.79.55.222]) by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f13HX9q20913 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 12:33:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from alex@pilosoft.com) Received: from localhost (alexmail@localhost) by spider.pilosoft.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09231; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 12:36:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 12:36:01 -0500 (EST) From: Alex Pilosov To: Peter Mount cc: Alex Pilosov , tomasz konefal , pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [HACKERS] TODO list: Allow Java server-side programming In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010203103036.009efec0@mail.retep.org.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Precedence: bulk Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Status: OR On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, Peter Mount wrote: > It's been a while since I delved into the backend, but unless it's > changed from fork() to threading, I don't really see this happening, > unless someone who knows C that well knows of a portable way of > communicating between two processes - other than RMI. If that could be > solved, then you could use JNI to interface the JVM. There are many ways one can do this: a) each backend will have a JVM linked in (shared object). This is the way perl/tcl/ruby is embedded, and it works pretty nice. But, Java ['s memory requirement] sucks, therefore, this may not be the optimal way. > I know some people think this would slow the backend down, but it's > only the instanciation of the JVM thats slow, hence the other reason > fork() is holding this back. Ideally you would want the JVM to be > running with PostMaster, and then each backend can then use the JVM as > and when necessary. b) since JVM is threaded, it may be more efficient to have a dedicated process running JVM, and accepting some sort of IPC connections from postgres processes. The biggest problem here is SPI, there aren't a good way for that JVM to talk back to database. c) temporarily, to have quick working code, you can reach java using hacks using programming languages already built into postgres. Both TCL (tcl blend) and Perl (JPL and another hack which name escapes me) are able to execute java code. SPI is possible, I think both of these bindings are two-way (you can go perl-java-perl-java). Might be worth a quick try? -alex From pgsql-hackers-owner+M4164@postgresql.org Sun Feb 4 04:23:42 2001 Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id EAA04260 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 04:23:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f149Nhx75443; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 04:23:43 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from pgsql-hackers-owner+M4164@postgresql.org) Received: from me.tm.ee (adsl895.estpak.ee [213.168.23.133]) by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f149Mgx75338 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 04:22:42 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from hannu@tm.ee) Received: from tm.ee (IDENT:hannu@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by me.tm.ee (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01488; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 11:18:09 +0200 Message-ID: <3A7D1E51.E383AB7F@tm.ee> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 11:18:09 +0200 From: Hannu Krosing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.17 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Mount CC: Alex Pilosov , tomasz konefal , pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [HACKERS] TODO list: Allow Java server-side programming References: <20010202194049.38902.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010203103036.009efec0@mail.retep.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Status: OR Peter Mount wrote: > > At 14:57 02/02/01 -0500, Alex Pilosov wrote: > >On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, tomasz konefal wrote: > > > > > could someone please clarify what "Allow Java > > > server-side programming" actually means? what are the > > > limitations of using java and jdbc with pgsql? > > > >It means to embed Java interpreter inside postgres, and allow writing > >stored procedures and triggers in Java. > > Thats correct. Basically you are talking of something like PL/Java. The > Java side would be simple, but its linking the JVM to the backend that's > the problem. > > It's been a while since I delved into the backend, but unless it's changed > from fork() to threading, Someone posted here recently his port/tweaks of backend so that it used threads instead of fork(). IIRC it was done to be used inside a java client in an embedded system. ---------------- Hannu From pgsql-hackers-owner+M4168@postgresql.org Sun Feb 4 06:54:27 2001 Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id GAA19741 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 06:54:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f14BsOx83329; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 06:54:24 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from pgsql-hackers-owner+M4168@postgresql.org) Received: from mail.retep.org.uk ([216.126.85.184]) by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f14Bs9x83240 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 06:54:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from peter@retep.org.uk) Received: from heather.retep.org.uk ([193.113.241.180]) (authenticated) by mail.retep.org.uk (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f14BqkR83161; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 06:52:46 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from peter@retep.org.uk) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010204114942.00a0c8d0@mail.retep.org.uk> X-Sender: peter@mail.retep.org.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 11:51:21 +0000 To: Peter Eisentraut From: Peter Mount Subject: Re: [HACKERS] TODO list: Allow Java server-side programming Cc: Alex Pilosov , tomasz konefal , In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010203103036.009efec0@mail.retep.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Status: OR At 17:56 03/02/01 +0100, Peter Eisentraut wrote: >Peter Mount writes: > > > Thats correct. Basically you are talking of something like PL/Java. The > > Java side would be simple, but its linking the JVM to the backend that's > > the problem. > >I've tried that recently, here's how it looks as far as Linux JVMs go: [snip] >So currently I don't see how this could become a mainstream project, let >alone across platforms. I don't think it would be, but it would be a good side-project. Over time the various JVM's should become better to interface with. > > I know some people think this would slow the backend down, but it's only > > the instanciation of the JVM thats slow, hence the other reason fork() is > > holding this back. Ideally you would want the JVM to be running with > > PostMaster, and then each backend can then use the JVM as and when > necessary. > >But how do the other languages cope? Starting up a new Perl for each >backend can't be so cheap either. But a lot cheaper than Java. Peter From pgsql-hackers-owner+M4169@postgresql.org Sun Feb 4 06:57:24 2001 Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id GAA19817 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 06:57:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f14BvLx83711; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 06:57:21 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from pgsql-hackers-owner+M4169@postgresql.org) Received: from mail.retep.org.uk ([216.126.85.184]) by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f14Bv7x83611 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 06:57:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from peter@retep.org.uk) Received: from heather.retep.org.uk ([193.113.241.180]) (authenticated) by mail.retep.org.uk (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f14BtjR83557; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 06:55:45 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from peter@retep.org.uk) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010204115139.009f1c50@mail.retep.org.uk> X-Sender: peter@mail.retep.org.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 11:54:20 +0000 To: Alex Pilosov From: Peter Mount Subject: Re: [HACKERS] TODO list: Allow Java server-side programming Cc: Alex Pilosov , tomasz konefal , pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010203103036.009efec0@mail.retep.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Status: OR At 12:36 03/02/01 -0500, Alex Pilosov wrote: >On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, Peter Mount wrote: [snip] > > I know some people think this would slow the backend down, but it's > > only the instanciation of the JVM thats slow, hence the other reason > > fork() is holding this back. Ideally you would want the JVM to be > > running with PostMaster, and then each backend can then use the JVM as > > and when necessary. >b) since JVM is threaded, it may be more efficient to have a dedicated >process running JVM, and accepting some sort of IPC connections from >postgres processes. The biggest problem here is SPI, there aren't a good >way for that JVM to talk back to database. That was my other idea, but it is the IPC thats problematical. You would still need to do some native api to implement some messaging system between the two. However, at the other extreme there is RPC, which is possible now, but would be a lot slower. >c) temporarily, to have quick working code, you can reach java using hacks >using programming languages already built into postgres. Both TCL (tcl >blend) and Perl (JPL and another hack which name escapes me) are able to >execute java code. SPI is possible, I think both of these bindings are >two-way (you can go perl-java-perl-java). Might be worth a quick try? Might be one way to go... Peter >-alex > From pgsql-jdbc-owner+M884@postgresql.org Wed Jun 27 13:36:09 2001 Return-path: Received: from postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) by candle.pha.pa.us (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f5RHa9q05483 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 13:36:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from postgresql.org.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) by postgresql.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) with SMTP id f5RHaAa03078 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 13:36:10 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from pgsql-jdbc-owner+M884@postgresql.org) Received: from net2.micro-automation.com (net2.micro-automation.com [64.7.141.29]) by postgresql.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) with SMTP id f5RHOka96908 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 13:24:46 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Dave@micro-automation.net) Received: (qmail 32671 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2001 17:24:39 -0000 Received: from eboxwest.ebox.com (HELO INSPIRON) (206.51.23.194) by net2.micro-automation.com with SMTP; 27 Jun 2001 17:24:39 -0000 Reply-To: From: "Dave Cramer" To: "'Barry Lind'" cc: Subject: [JDBC] RE: Todo/missing? (was Re: [ADMIN] High memory usage [PATCH]) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 13:22:42 -0400 Organization: Micro Automation Inc. Message-ID: <008301c0ff2d$c885d880$0201a8c0@INSPIRON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3B39352E.6060904@xythos.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-AntiVirus: scanned for viruses by AMaViS 0.2.1 (http://amavis.org/) Precedence: bulk Sender: pgsql-jdbc-owner@postgresql.org Status: OR Barry, The getXXXFunctions aren't implemented Some of the other functions are correct for version 7.1 but not for previous versions. Ie. The row length, etc. I think the driver should get the version and determine what is correct for each version. I think this is incorrect. public boolean supportsSelectForUpdate() throws SQLException { // XXX-Not Implemented return false; } There are a number of things here which are hard coded, and possible wrong. I started to work on this, but since I am going on vacation next week I have a number of fires to get down to a slow burn before I go. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Barry Lind [mailto:barry@xythos.com] Sent: June 26, 2001 9:22 PM To: Dave Cramer Cc: pgsql-jdbc@postgresql.org Subject: Re: Todo/missing? (was Re: [ADMIN] High memory usage [PATCH]) Dave, Can you give a little more detail on what you mean by 'Improved DatabaseMetaData'? What specific areas are currently lacking? thanks, --Barry >>On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 10:56:18PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: >> >>>I have to agree, we need to compile a todo list. >>> >>>Mine would include: >>> >>>1) Comprehensive test suite. This may be available already. >>>2) Updateable resultSet >>>3) Improved DatabaseMetaData >>>4) Compatible blob support >>> > > Added to official PostgreSQL TODO: > > * JDBC > * Comprehensive test suite. This may be available already. > * Updateable resultSet > * Improved DatabaseMetaData > * Compatible blob support > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster From pgsql-jdbc-owner+M968@postgresql.org Sun Jul 8 18:59:29 2001 Return-path: Received: from postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) by candle.pha.pa.us (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f68MxTl05403 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:59:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from postgresql.org.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) by postgresql.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) with SMTP id f68MxWa07043 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:59:32 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from pgsql-jdbc-owner+M968@postgresql.org) Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.de (mailout02.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.17]) by postgresql.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f68MrGa05368 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:53:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from peter_e@gmx.net) Received: from fwd06.sul.t-online.de by mailout02.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15JNQP-0004x9-00; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 00:53:13 +0200 Received: from peter.localdomain (520083510237-0001@[212.185.245.47]) by fmrl06.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 15JNQH-0xfc00C; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:53:05 +0200 Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:55:37 +0200 (CEST) From: Peter Eisentraut To: Subject: [JDBC] To do list for DatabaseMetaData Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: 520083510237-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Sender: pgsql-jdbc-owner@postgresql.org Status: OR Since DatabaseMetaData seems to have been a subject of interest lately I have composed a list of concrete things that need to be done there. The spec of DatabaseMetaData is here: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.3/docs/api/java/sql/DatabaseMetaData.html All the functions listed in the spec and not listed below I have recently checked and updated for correctness and compliance. Thus, this list is complete. Functions marked with '?' I have not checked yet. If someone wants to tackle some of the getThings() functions, a description of the system catalogs is in the Developer's Guide. Also note that some functions currently incorrectly handle the case of null patterns vs. "" patterns vs. "%" patterns. At least two parameters obtained by a DatabaseMetaData method are user-tunable on the server side. The only way to get at those numbers currently is to use SHOW and parse the NOTICE: it sends back (which is impossible in the days of internationalized messages), so a nice side-project would be to implement a get_config_variable(text) returns text (better names possible) function to allow easier access. Now the list: allProceduresAreCallable() not all procedures listed are callable (triggers, in/out) allTablesAreSelectable() should this check access privileges or what? getSQLKeywords() outdated, could be automated like keywords.sgml getNumericFunctions() decide what exactly is a "numeric function"? getStringFunctions() ditto getSystemFunctions() ditto getTimeDateFunctions() ditto getExtraNameCharacters() server allows \200 to \377, how does this fit in with Unicode? getMaxColumnNameLength() 32 is hard-coded here, maybe query server getMaxColumnsInIndex() this should be detected from server getMaxColumnsInTable() this limit is probably shaky getMaxConnections() could query the server for this (SHOW, see above) getMaxCursorNameLength() 32 hard-coded getMaxSchemaNameLength() will be 32 when done getMaxProcedureNameLength() 32 hard-coded getMaxCatalogNameLength() should be NAMEDATALEN doesMaxRowSizeIncludeBlobs() since we don't have blobs, should this throw an exception? getMaxStatements() questionable, see comment there getMaxTableNameLength() 32 hard-coded getMaxUserNameLength() 32 hard-coded getDefaultTransactionIsolation() This is configurable in 7.2. (SHOW, see above) getProcedures() missing catalog (database) and remarks columns getProcedureColumns() only dummy implementation getTables() fails to handle pre-7.1 servers (relkind 'v') getSchemas() This should throw an exception. getTableTypes() ? getColumns() ? getColumnPrivileges() not implemented getTablePrivileges() not implemented getBestRowIdentifier() only dummy implementation getVersionColumns() not implemented getPrimaryKeys() ? getImportedKeys() ? getExportedKeys() not implemented getCrossReference() not implemented getTypeInfo() ? getIndexInfo() ? getUDTs() ? -- Peter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net http://funkturm.homeip.net/~peter ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://www.postgresql.org/search.mpl From pgsql-general-owner+M14602@postgresql.org Sat Sep 1 00:50:49 2001 Return-path: Received: from server1.pgsql.org (server1.pgsql.org [64.39.15.238] (may be forged)) by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f814onF24433 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 00:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) by server1.pgsql.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f814pNq39726; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 23:51:23 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from pgsql-general-owner+M14602@postgresql.org) Received: from ns1.austin.rr.com (ns1.austin.rr.com [24.93.35.62]) by postgresql.org (8.11.3/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f81439f96700 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 00:03:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsanford@nolimitsystems.com) Received: from mightywombat (cs662523-179.houston.rr.com [66.25.23.179]) by ns1.austin.rr.com (8.12.0.Beta16/8.12.0.Beta16) with SMTP id f813x7pX027417 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 22:59:07 -0500 From: "Robert J. Sanford, Jr." To: Subject: Re: [GENERAL] PL/java? Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 23:02:04 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: Precedence: bulk Sender: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Status: OR note - i don't work for any of the companies whose products are mentioned below. i have performed evaluations of these products and the support provided when attempting to determine what platform my company's systems should run on. unfortunately, i did not choose orion and i am suffering for it now... some goober blathered thusly: > Have you ever actually used Java on an enterprise-level > application? Ever see the Tomcat webserver? It uses > 100MB of memory, drives the load on our server up to 8, > and doesn't serve nearly as fast apache. Do you really > want that in your database? first - don't complain about java because you or someone in your group/department/company made a poor decision on what tools to use. that's like complaining about mexican food when the only experience you have is eating an out- dated frozen burrito from the 7-11 freezer. when looking at the performance of java you have to take a look at two things - first you have to compare various java implementations against each other and then you have to compare the best java implementations against native c/c++ code. the following link does that. the java tests include tomcat, orion, websphere, and resin. jrun and weblogic were originally included in the testing but were both removed at their companies' request. the tests also compare orion vs microsoft asp running on win2k and iis5. all tests run on the same hardware. what i believe these tests clearly demonstrate is that java is not the problem, the implementation applications based on java is. i also do not believe that tomcat is a fair representation of java performance in that it is intended to be a reference implementation. as such, the code base should sacrifice performance for clarity. http://www.orionserver.com/benchmarks/benchmark.html while not in the benchmark i would also like to recommend jetty as an app server. it is an opensource, 100% java web and application server. in its base form it is "just" a web, servlet, and jsp engine. it does, however, have contributed code providing integration with other j2ee opensource projects such as the JBoss EJB engine. you can find the jetty home page at: http://jetty.mortbay.com/ and then they blathered some more: > Compare the speed of Oracle 8 with 8i if you don't > believe me. The stability is also much worse. Ever > see a JVM on any platform that didn't crash if you > looked at it cockeyed? Ever really trust the garbage > collection? I don't. I've found a memory leak in IBM > developed java libraries. Gotta restart that app > every once in a while to reclaim system resources it > gobbled up and never gave back. some mention was made regarding the performance of the oracle8i application server. well, oracle has realized that their performance was sub-optimal and rectified the situation by licensing the orion server for oracle9i. while money and politics most certainly play a part in any licensing arrangement they must also realize that making customers happy through the performance of their applications will lead to more money. the link to the press release is below. http://www.oracle.com/corporate/press/index.html?759347.html all of that being said... i don't think that the person that started this thread did anything wrong by making the request they did. that is what opensource is all about - contributions, even just contributions of ideas, are welcomed. even so, there are several options that i see for getting it implemented: 1) its an open source project so implement it yourself. while i have never worked on modifying the code base i am extremely confident that the current developers will be more than willing to give you advice and pointers. 2) if #1 is not feasible either because you don't have the time, the inclination, or the experience then you can write a contract that will pay one of the postgres developers to implement it for you. 3) if that isn't feasible you can try to get a volunteer to do so. 4) if that isn't feasible then you either have to live with what you have, go elsewhere, or be quiet. to the person that blathered thusly in response to the request for java: > Merits of the language notwithstanding, I'd rather > not have a buggy, still under development > (depreciating everything under the sun with every > new iteration) JVM parasite in my DB. informed and intelligent debate is good. given that i believe such to be true, i would request that you refrain from blathering such vitriol and uninformed nonsense. not only is it for the good of the people on the list who don't want to hear it but it will also do you good by not telling everyone out there that you are a very silly person that doesn't deal with logic and/or facts. to everyone else on the list - if we all contribute a penny we could probably buy enough burritos from 7-11 to make sure that his hands and mouth are busy for a good long while. rjsjr ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly From pgsql-general-owner+M14597@postgresql.org Fri Aug 31 23:23:15 2001 Return-path: Received: from server1.pgsql.org (server1.pgsql.org [64.39.15.238] (may be forged)) by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f813NEF20222 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 23:23:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) by server1.pgsql.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f813Njq38048; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 22:23:46 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from pgsql-general-owner+M14597@postgresql.org) Received: from spider.pilosoft.com (p55-222.acedsl.com [160.79.55.222]) by postgresql.org (8.11.3/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f812Yuf42942 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 22:35:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from alex@pilosoft.com) Received: from localhost (alexmail@localhost) by spider.pilosoft.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20075; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 22:35:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 22:35:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Alex Pilosov To: Alex Knight cc: pgsql-general@postgresql.org Subject: [WAY OT] Re: [GENERAL] PL/java? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Precedence: bulk Sender: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Status: OR On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Alex Knight wrote: > It is generally wiser to split the webservers from the appservers; > that will save on memory footprints from each respectively. That alone > can give each machine a specific task to accomplish... generally more > efficiently. But I would assume you know this. And it is wise to split database from middleware, and not try to saddle PostgreSQL with requirements to support Java in-process. _IF_ java stored procedures are implemented, it should be via something like a) oracle's extproc (start a separate process to load the function) b) some of perl java tools (they start a jdk in a separate process and communicate with it using RMI). Problem with java-pgsql integration is the threads model: Java really really wants threads. Postgres doesn't do threads. So if most simple way is attempted, you will incur overhead of starting up JVM for each backend (a few seconds as opposed to milliseconds) and non-shared 30M of memory per backend (as opposed to currently <3 megs of non-shared memory per backend). > Using something like WebLogic, WebSphere, or Orion would be a wiser > approach. For the company with the low budget, Orion is only something > like $2000, and it has full J2EE support, including EJBs, etc. Try > finding that kind of richness in Tomcat. Also, Orion takes up only > 40-50mb at start, which is really fairly reasonable; ram is cheap > anyways... a server that has to perform complicated algorithms to a > large audience but has hardly any ram shouldn't be on the internet > anyways; unless it can handle it. _ONLY_ 40-50Mb?! Egads, I'm hard pressed to find any other piece of (non-windows, non-java) software that takes 40-50M just to start up! I worked with both CrapLogic and CrapSphere. Weblogic takes 20-60 seconds to start up on P3-800, that, IMHO, is ridiculous. It is not only issue of memory, its easy to throw memory at the problem, its an issue of _incremental use_ of memory. As you scale > I feel that you don't really have enough experience with _java_ to > judge it accurately. Frankly, the JVM is quite small nowadays, > considering the amount of base classes that sit in memory much of the > time. And the JVMs are really much faster these days. Java is still > slow for 2 reasons: 1) Developers who don't optimize their code as > they write it, 2) Bytecode interpretation is and probably never will > be as fast as something like C/C++. But it certainly isn't the JVM > itself slowing it down because of some "extended memory" that it lives > in. Any reasonable server should have absolutely no problems if the > jvm is implemented _properly_ (which many packages do not do), etc. If > you're comparing Java to perl, yes, certainly it's a bit more of a > beast, but perl quite simply can't keep up in speed and feature > richness (when was the last time you secured your perl code in a > redistributable fashion?) _WHY_ the heck do all base classes need to be in memory all the time? Why are they so huge? Libc is _far far_ smaller, and libstdc++ is tiny compared to all the java standard library. You know what the answer to it is: Because they are ALL written in java, as opposed to more sane languages like perl which handcode their "standard libraries" or the most important pieces of them in C. Perl is far faster than java in about any practical application I did. Again, the issue is not speed of JVM versus PP (perl virtual machine), if you did number crunching in perl and java, they would probably be at par. Its an issue of standard libraries. They are _horribly slow_. Perl's hashtables are a very nice piece of optimized C code. Java's hashtables are written in Java. Need I say more? Java's AWT was a dog. Swing is a dog and a half, because they reimplemented all the things that are commonly done in C in Java. > The only mistake the developers can make is poorly implementing the > jvm, but most certainly not Java itself. I've been working on > architecting and building enterprise level sites and applications for > nearly 8 years now, and I've seen too many people try to implement > perl cgi websites for enterprise sites and watch them choke and crawl > to their knees because of poor system resource handling, lack of > scalability, etc... I most certainly don't consider a single webserver > with an appserver and tiny database to be enterprise level either (not > that I'm inferring you said it was). You cannot compare a perl CGI script and a J2EE server. Its like comparing a webserver you wrote yourself vs apache! There are application servers (or more closely, code libraries) for perl that match what J2EE provides. -- Alex Pilosov | http://www.acedsl.com/home.html CTO - Acecape, Inc. | AceDSL:The best ADSL in the world 325 W 38 St. Suite 1005 | (Stealth Marketing Works! :) New York, NY 10018 | ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly From pgsql-hackers-owner+M14652=candle.pha.pa.us=pgman@postgresql.org Thu Oct 25 22:24:44 2001 Return-path: Received: from rs.postgresql.org (server1.pgsql.org [64.39.15.238] (may be forged)) by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f9Q1Oim04694 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 21:24:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28]) by rs.postgresql.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9Q1CeR31737 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 20:21:26 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from pgsql-hackers-owner+M14652=candle.pha.pa.us=pgman@postgresql.org) Received: from smaug.polygnosis.com (smaug.polygnosis.com [195.139.160.201]) by postgresql.org (8.11.3/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f9Q16NP39474 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 21:06:23 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from gunnar@smaug.polygnosis.com) Received: (from gunnar@localhost) by smaug.polygnosis.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f9Q15nC01560; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 03:05:49 +0200 To: tweekie cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [HACKERS] java virtual machine References: <3bd825e2_1@Usenet.com> From: Gunnar =?iso-8859-1?q?R=F8nning?= Date: 26 Oct 2001 03:05:49 +0200 In-Reply-To: <3bd825e2_1@Usenet.com> Message-ID: Lines: 19 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Status: OR * tweekie wrote: | | I asked this question a while back but got no response - is there any way of | creating a Java stored procedure in a postgres database ? I can see that | there is a built-in PL/sql type of environment and a python one but it would | be nice if I could migrate Java stored procedures in an Oracle database into | postgres. | | Any comments? It would rock ;-) An Hungarian guy just sent a mail indicating that he had a first prototype version of something with Kaffe up and running. But I believe there is a lot of issues to be solved, especially threading issues... -- Gunnar Rønning - gunnar@polygnosis.com Senior Consultant, Polygnosis AS, http://www.polygnosis.com/ ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html