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From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45196@postgresql.org Thu Oct 9 21:02:52 2003
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Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:00:10 -0300 (ADT)
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From: "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@postgresql.org>
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X-X-Sender: scrappy@ganymede.hub.org
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To: Tatsuo Ishii <t-ishii@sra.co.jp>
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cc: andrew@libertyrms.info, pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
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Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit
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In-Reply-To: <20031010.094635.104030040.t-ishii@sra.co.jp>
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Message-ID: <20031009215935.S28590@ganymede.hub.org>
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References: <20031009160718.GC14394@libertyrms.info> <1065723448.1821.2288.camel@camel>
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<20031009204141.GS14394@libertyrms.info> <20031010.094635.104030040.t-ishii@sra.co.jp>
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X-Mailing-List: pgsql-hackers
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Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org
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Status: OR
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Tatsuo Ishii wrote:
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> > Yes. I don't think that 2PC is a solution for robustness in face of
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> > network failure. It's too slow, to begin with. Some sort of
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> > multi-master system is very desirable for network failures, &c., but
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> > I don't think anybody does active/hot standby with 2PC any more; the
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> > performance is too bad.
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>
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> I'm tired of this kind of "2PC is too slow" arguments. I think
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> Satoshi, the only guy who made a trial implementation of 2PC for
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> PostgreSQL, has already showed that 2PC is not that slow.
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Where does Satoshi's implementation sit right now? Will it patch to v7.4?
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Can it provide us with a base to work from, or is it complete?
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From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45212@postgresql.org Fri Oct 10 00:22:09 2003
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for pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 04:12:19 GMT
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X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.hackers
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Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit
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References: <20031009160718.GC14394@libertyrms.info> <1065723448.1821.2288.camel@camel> <20031009204141.GS14394@libertyrms.info> <20031010.094635.104030040.t-ishii@sra.co.jp>
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From: Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@acm.org>
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X-message-flag: Outlook is rather hackable, isn't it?
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Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 23:53:46 -0400
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Organization: Bell Sympatico
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To: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
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Status: OR
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The world rejoiced as t-ishii@sra.co.jp (Tatsuo Ishii) wrote:
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> I'm tired of this kind of "2PC is too slow" arguments. I think
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> Satoshi, the only guy who made a trial implementation of 2PC for
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> PostgreSQL, has already showed that 2PC is not that slow.
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I'm tired of it for a different reason, namely that there are "use
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cases" where speed is not _relevant_. The REAL problem that is taking
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place is that people are talking past each other.
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- Some say, "It's too slow; no point in doing it."
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The fact that it may be too slow _for them_ means they probably
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shouldn't use it. I somehow doubt that there are Vastly Faster
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alternatives waiting in the wings.
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- The other problem that gets pointed out: "2PC is inherently
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fragile, and prone to deadlock."
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Again, those that _need_ to use 2PC will forcibly need to address
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those concerns in the way they manage their systems.
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Those that can't afford the fragility are not 'customers' for use of
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2PC. And, pointing back to the speed controversy, it is not at all
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obvious that there is any other alternative for handling distributed
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processing that _totally addresses_ the concerns about fragility.
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Those that can't afford these costs associated with 2PC will simply
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Not Use It.
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Probably in much the same way that most people _aren't_ using
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replication. And most people _aren't_ using PL/R. And most people
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_aren't_ using any number of the contributed things.
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If 2PC gets implemented, that simply means that there will be another
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module that some will be interested in, and which many people won't
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bother using. Which shouldn't seem to be a particularly big deal.
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--
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"aa454","@","freenet.carleton.ca"
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http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/
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The way to a man's heart is with a broadsword.
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TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
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http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
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From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45350@postgresql.org Tue Oct 14 12:34:46 2003
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To: "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@postgresql.org>
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cc: Tatsuo Ishii <t-ishii@sra.co.jp>, andrew@libertyrms.info,
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pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
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Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit
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References: <20031009160718.GC14394@libertyrms.info> <1065723448.1821.2288.camel@camel> <20031009204141.GS14394@libertyrms.info> <20031010.094635.104030040.t-ishii@sra.co.jp> <20031009215935.S28590@ganymede.hub.org>
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Status: OR
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>>I'm tired of this kind of "2PC is too slow" arguments. I think
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>>Satoshi, the only guy who made a trial implementation of 2PC for
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>>PostgreSQL, has already showed that 2PC is not that slow.
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>
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>
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> Where does Satoshi's implementation sit right now? Will it patch to v7.4?
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> Can it provide us with a base to work from, or is it complete?
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It is not ready yet.
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You can find it at ...
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http://snaga.org/pgsql/
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It is based on 7.3
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* the 2-phase commit protocol (precommit and commit)
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* the multi-master replication using 2PC
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* distributed transaction (distributed query)
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current work
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* restarting (from 2nd phase) when the session is disconnected in
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2nd phase (XLOG stuffs)
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* XA compliance
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future work
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* hot failover and recovery in PostgreSQL cluster
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* data partitioning on different servers
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I have compiled it a while ago.
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Seems to be pretty nice :).
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Hans
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--
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Cybertec Geschwinde u Schoenig
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Ludo-Hartmannplatz 1/14, A-1160 Vienna, Austria
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Tel: +43/2952/30706 or +43/660/816 40 77
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www.cybertec.at, www.postgresql.at, kernel.cybertec.at
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From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45361@postgresql.org Tue Oct 14 12:36:29 2003
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Return-path: <pgsql-hackers-owner+M45361@postgresql.org>
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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:47:35 +0200
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From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hans-J=FCrgen_Sch=F6nig?= <hs@cybertec.at>
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To: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
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cc: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>,
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Andrew Sullivan <andrew@libertyrms.info>, pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
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Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit
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References: <200310091442.h99Eg3R29404@candle.pha.pa.us>
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Status: OR
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>>Why would you spent time on implementing a mechanism whose ultimate
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>>benefit is supposed to be increasing reliability and performance, when you
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>>already realize that it will have to lock up at the slightest sight of
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>>trouble? There are better mechanisms out there that you can use instead.
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>
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>
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> If you want cross-server transactions, what other methods are there that
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> are more reliable? It seems network unreliability is going to be a
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> problem no matter what method you use.
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>
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I guess we need something like PITR to make this work because otherwise
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I cannot see a way to get in sync again.
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Maybe I should call the desired mechanism "Entire cluster back to
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transaction X recovery".
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Did anybody hear about PITR recently?
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How else would you recover from any kind of problem?
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No matter what you are doing network reliability will be a problem so we
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have to live with it.
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Having some "going back to something consistent" is necessary anyway.
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People might argue now that committed transactions might be lost. If
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people knew which ones, its ok. 90% of all people will understand that
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in case of a crash something evil might happen.
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Hans
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--
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Cybertec Geschwinde u Schoenig
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Ludo-Hartmannplatz 1/14, A-1160 Vienna, Austria
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Tel: +43/2952/30706 or +43/660/816 40 77
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www.cybertec.at, www.postgresql.at, kernel.cybertec.at
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---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
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TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your
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joining column's datatypes do not match
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From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45354@postgresql.org Tue Oct 14 12:35:50 2003
|
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Return-path: <pgsql-hackers-owner+M45354@postgresql.org>
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for <gmane-comp-db-postgresql-devel-general@m.gmane.org>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:06:12 +0200
|
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From: Heikki Linnakangas <hlinnaka@iki.fi>
|
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Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit
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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:06:11 +0300
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Lines: 13
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Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.58.0310101101400.188711@kosh.hut.fi>
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References: <20031010.094635.104030040.t-ishii@sra.co.jp>
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<200310100053.h9A0rkl23681@candle.pha.pa.us>
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Status: OR
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On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Bruce Momjian wrote:
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> Agreed. Let's get it into 7.5 and see it in action. If we need to
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> adjust it, we can, but right now, we need something for distributed
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> transactions, and this seems like the logical direction.
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I've started working on two-phase commits last week, and the very
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basic stuff is now working. Still a lot of bugs though.
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I posted the stuff I've put together to patches-list. I'd appreciate any
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comments.
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- Heikki
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---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
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TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend
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From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45235@postgresql.org Fri Oct 10 15:27:57 2003
|
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Return-path: <pgsql-hackers-owner+M45235@postgresql.org>
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Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:39:14 +0900
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Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 04:26:26 +0900
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From: Satoshi Nagayasu <pgsql@snaga.org>
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To: Andrew Sullivan <andrew@libertyrms.info>
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cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
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Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit
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Message-ID: <20031011042626.6019bff2.pgsql@snaga.org>
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In-Reply-To: <20031010190255.GT16336@libertyrms.info>
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References: <20031009160718.GC14394@libertyrms.info>
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<1065723448.1821.2288.camel@camel>
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<20031009204141.GS14394@libertyrms.info>
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<20031010.094635.104030040.t-ishii@sra.co.jp>
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<20031010190255.GT16336@libertyrms.info>
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MIME-Version: 1.0
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X-Mailing-List: pgsql-hackers
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Precedence: bulk
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Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org
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Status: OR
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Andrew Sullivan <andrew@libertyrms.info> wrote:
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> On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 09:46:35AM +0900, Tatsuo Ishii wrote:
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> > Satoshi, the only guy who made a trial implementation of 2PC for
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> > PostgreSQL, has already showed that 2PC is not that slow.
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>
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> If someone has a fast implementation, so much the better. I'm not
|
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> opposed to fast implementations!
|
|
|
|
The pgbench results of my experimental 2PC implementation
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|
and plain postgresql are available.
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PostgreSQL 7.3
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http://snaga.org/pgsql/pgbench/pgbench-REL7_3.log
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Experimental 2PC in PostgreSQL 7.3
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http://snaga.org/pgsql/pgbench/pgbench-TPC0_0_2.log
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I can't see a grave overhead from this comparison.
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>
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> A
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>
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> --
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> ----
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> Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street
|
|
> Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada
|
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> <andrew@libertyrms.info> M2P 2A8
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> +1 416 646 3304 x110
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>
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>
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> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
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> TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend
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>
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--
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|
NAGAYASU Satoshi <snaga@snaga.org>
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---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
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TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives?
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http://archives.postgresql.org
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|
|
From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45240@postgresql.org Fri Oct 10 18:29:40 2003
|
|
Return-path: <pgsql-hackers-owner+M45240@postgresql.org>
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for <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:29:40 -0400 (EDT)
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with ESMTP id 15392-08
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for <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:28:25 -0300 (ADT)
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Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message
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Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit
|
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MIME-Version: 1.0
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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:28:05 -0700
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|
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Thread-Topic: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit
|
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Thread-Index: AcOPezZr87PXbIlLRH6225JV2yf6zgAAc1Ig
|
|
From: "Dann Corbit" <DCorbit@connx.com>
|
|
To: "Satoshi Nagayasu" <pgsql@snaga.org>,
|
|
"Andrew Sullivan" <andrew@libertyrms.info>
|
|
cc: <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
|
|
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org
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Status: OR
|
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|
|
> -----Original Message-----
|
|
> From: Satoshi Nagayasu [mailto:pgsql@snaga.org]
|
|
> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 12:26 PM
|
|
> To: Andrew Sullivan
|
|
> Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
|
|
> Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit
|
|
>
|
|
> Andrew Sullivan <andrew@libertyrms.info> wrote:
|
|
> > On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 09:46:35AM +0900, Tatsuo Ishii wrote:
|
|
> > > Satoshi, the only guy who made a trial implementation of 2PC for
|
|
> > > PostgreSQL, has already showed that 2PC is not that slow.
|
|
> >
|
|
> > If someone has a fast implementation, so much the better. I'm not
|
|
> > opposed to fast implementations!
|
|
>
|
|
> The pgbench results of my experimental 2PC implementation
|
|
> and plain postgresql are available.
|
|
>
|
|
> PostgreSQL 7.3
|
|
> http://snaga.org/pgsql/pgbench/pgbench-REL7_3.log
|
|
>
|
|
> Experimental 2PC in PostgreSQL 7.3
|
|
> http://snaga.org/pgsql/pgbench/pgbench-TPC0_0_2.log
|
|
>
|
|
> I can't see a grave overhead from this comparison.
|
|
|
|
2PC is absolutely essential when you have to have both parts of the
|
|
transaction complete for a logical unit of work. For a project that
|
|
needs it, if you don't have it you will be forced to go to another tool,
|
|
or perform lots of custom programming to work around it.
|
|
|
|
If you have 2PC and it is ten times slower than without it, you will
|
|
still need it for projects requiring that capability.
|
|
|
|
Now, a good model to start with is a very good idea. So some discussion
|
|
and analysis is a good thing. From the looks of it, Satoshi Nagayasu
|
|
has done a very good job. Having a functional 2PC would be a huge
|
|
feather in the cap of PostgreSQL.
|
|
|
|
IMO-YMMV
|
|
|
|
---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
|
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TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
|
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|
|
From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45242@postgresql.org Fri Oct 10 23:22:31 2003
|
|
Return-path: <pgsql-hackers-owner+M45242@postgresql.org>
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Received: from svr5.postgresql.org (svr5.postgresql.org [64.117.225.181])
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by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9B3MUd13414
|
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for <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:22:30 -0400 (EDT)
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Received: from postgresql.org (svr1.postgresql.org [64.117.224.193])
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id 9C48072DCAF; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 03:22:23 +0000 (GMT)
|
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|
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X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.hackers
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Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit
|
|
References: <D90A5A6C612A39408103E6ECDD77B829408BF2@voyager.corporate.connx.com>
|
|
From: Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@acm.org>
|
|
X-message-flag: Outlook is rather hackable, isn't it?
|
|
X-Home-Page: http://www.cbbrowne.com/info/
|
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X-Affero: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=cbbrowne
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Message-ID: <m3u16gzdp4.fsf@wolfe.cbbrowne.com>
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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:54:31 -0400
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X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca
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Organization: Bell Sympatico
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To: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
|
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X-Mailing-List: pgsql-hackers
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|
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Status: OR
|
|
|
|
Martha Stewart called it a Good Thing whenDCorbit@connx.com ("Dann Corbit")wrote:
|
|
>> I can't see a grave overhead from this comparison.
|
|
>
|
|
> 2PC is absolutely essential when you have to have both parts of the
|
|
> transaction complete for a logical unit of work. For a project that
|
|
> needs it, if you don't have it you will be forced to go to another
|
|
> tool, or perform lots of custom programming to work around it.
|
|
>
|
|
> If you have 2PC and it is ten times slower than without it, you will
|
|
> still need it for projects requiring that capability.
|
|
|
|
Just so.
|
|
|
|
I would be completely unsurprised if an attempt to use 2PC to support
|
|
generalized "multimaster replication" would involve 10-fold slowdowns
|
|
as compared to having all the activity take place on one database.
|
|
|
|
Which would imply that 2PC is not a tool that may be appropriately
|
|
used to naively do replication. But that should not come as any grand
|
|
surprise.
|
|
|
|
To each tool the right job, and to each job the right tool...
|
|
|
|
There seems to be enough room for there to be evidence both of 2PC
|
|
being useful for improving performance, and for it to cut
|
|
performance:
|
|
|
|
- TPC benchmarks often specify the inclusion of Tuxedo as a
|
|
component; the combination of vendors would surely NOT put it
|
|
on the list if it were not an aid to performance;
|
|
|
|
- There is also indication that there can be a cost, notably in the
|
|
form of the concerns of deadlock, but it should also be obvious
|
|
that slow network links would lead to _hideous_ increases in
|
|
latency.
|
|
|
|
As you say, even if there is a substantial cost, it's still worthwhile
|
|
if a project needs it.
|
|
|
|
> Now, a good model to start with is a very good idea. So some
|
|
> discussion and analysis is a good thing. From the looks of it,
|
|
> Satoshi Nagayasu has done a very good job. Having a functional 2PC
|
|
> would be a huge feather in the cap of PostgreSQL.
|
|
|
|
It would seem so. I look forward to seeing how this progresses.
|
|
--
|
|
wm(X,Y):-write(X),write('@'),write(Y). wm('cbbrowne','acm.org').
|
|
http://cbbrowne.com/info/linuxdistributions.html
|
|
"XFS might (or might not) come out before the year 3000. As far as
|
|
kernel patches go, SGI are brilliant. As far as graphics, especially
|
|
OpenGL, go, SGI is untouchable. As far as filing systems go, a
|
|
concussed doormouse in a tarpit would move faster." -- jd on Slashdot
|
|
|
|
---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
|
|
TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
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From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45243@postgresql.org Sat Oct 11 00:39:02 2003
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Return-path: <pgsql-hackers-owner+M45243@postgresql.org>
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Received: from voyager.corporate.connx.com (voyager.corporate.connx.com [65.212.159.131])
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for <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:37:49 -0300 (ADT)
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Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message
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Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit
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MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Type: text/plain;
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charset="us-ascii"
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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:37:53 -0700
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Message-ID: <D90A5A6C612A39408103E6ECDD77B8294CE1EC@voyager.corporate.connx.com>
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Thread-Topic: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit
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Thread-Index: AcOPp2jLw1yNPbdnRFGP5HwssCpXCwACbcFw
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From: "Dann Corbit" <DCorbit@connx.com>
|
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To: "Christopher Browne" <cbbrowne@acm.org>, <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
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X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org
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Status: OR
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Why not apply the effort to something already done and compatibly
|
|
licensed?
|
|
|
|
This:
|
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http://dog.intalio.com/ots.html
|
|
|
|
Appears to be a Berkeley style licensed:
|
|
http://dog.intalio.com/license.html
|
|
|
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Transaction monitor.
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|
|
|
"Overview
|
|
The OpenORB Transaction Service is a very scalable transaction monitor
|
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which also provides several extensions like XA management, a management
|
|
interface to control all transaction processes and a high reliable
|
|
recovery system.
|
|
|
|
By coordinating OpenORB and OpenORB Transaction Service, you provide a
|
|
reliable and powerful foundation for building large scalable distributed
|
|
applications.
|
|
|
|
Datasheet
|
|
The OpenORB Transaction Service is a fully compliant implementation of
|
|
the OMG Transaction Service specification.
|
|
The OpenORB Transaction Service features are :
|
|
Management of distributed transactions with a two phase commit
|
|
protocol
|
|
Sub Transactions management ( nested transactions )
|
|
Propagation of the transaction context between CORBA objects
|
|
Management of distributed transactions propagation through databases
|
|
with the XA protocol
|
|
Automatic logs to be able to make recovery in case of failures
|
|
Can be used as a transaction initiator or subordinate
|
|
High-performance, multiple thread architecture
|
|
Developed with POA
|
|
Provides a management interface to control all transactions
|
|
Full support of JTA
|
|
JDBC pooling and automatic resource enlistment
|
|
|
|
|
|
Download
|
|
To download the OpenORB Transaction Service, do one of the following :
|
|
CVS : you can use CVS to grab the sources directly.
|
|
FTP : you get either a CVS snapshot or a prebuilt version
|
|
To use one of these possibilities, go to the Download Services page.
|
|
|
|
ChangeLog
|
|
August 15th 2001. Version 1.2.0.
|
|
Changed the transaction client side to support late binding to the
|
|
transaction monitor.
|
|
Bug fixed in the transactional client interceptor. This bug was due to
|
|
a change in the OpenORB behavior concerning the slot
|
|
|
|
|
|
To get previous change log, please refer to the CHANGELOG file available
|
|
within this service distribution."
|
|
|
|
---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
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TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
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|
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http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
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From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45244@postgresql.org Sat Oct 11 01:23:16 2003
|
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Return-path: <pgsql-hackers-owner+M45244@postgresql.org>
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Received: from svr5.postgresql.org (svr5.postgresql.org [64.117.225.181])
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Received: from voyager.corporate.connx.com (voyager.corporate.connx.com [65.212.159.131])
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by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1756CD1B4FC
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for <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 02:21:58 -0300 (ADT)
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Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message
|
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Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit
|
|
MIME-Version: 1.0
|
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Content-Type: text/plain;
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charset="us-ascii"
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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:22:03 -0700
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X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0
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Message-ID: <D90A5A6C612A39408103E6ECDD77B8294CE1EE@voyager.corporate.connx.com>
|
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Thread-Topic: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit
|
|
Thread-Index: AcOPp2jLw1yNPbdnRFGP5HwssCpXCwACbcFwAAGb7AA=
|
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From: "Dann Corbit" <DCorbit@connx.com>
|
|
To: "Dann Corbit" <DCorbit@connx.com>, "Christopher Browne" <cbbrowne@acm.org>,
|
|
<pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
|
|
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org
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|
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Status: OR
|
|
|
|
Here is a sourceforge version of the same thing
|
|
http://openorb.sourceforge.net/
|
|
|
|
> -----Original Message-----
|
|
> From: Dann Corbit
|
|
> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 9:38 PM
|
|
> To: Christopher Browne; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
|
|
> Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit
|
|
>
|
|
>
|
|
> Why not apply the effort to something already done and
|
|
> compatibly licensed?
|
|
>
|
|
> This:
|
|
> http://dog.intalio.com/ots.html
|
|
>
|
|
> Appears to be a Berkeley style licensed:
|
|
> http://dog.intalio.com/license.html
|
|
>
|
|
> Transaction monitor.
|
|
>
|
|
> "Overview
|
|
> The OpenORB Transaction Service is a very scalable
|
|
> transaction monitor which also provides several extensions
|
|
> like XA management, a management interface to control all
|
|
> transaction processes and a high reliable recovery system.
|
|
>
|
|
> By coordinating OpenORB and OpenORB Transaction Service, you
|
|
> provide a reliable and powerful foundation for building large
|
|
> scalable distributed applications.
|
|
>
|
|
> Datasheet
|
|
> The OpenORB Transaction Service is a fully compliant
|
|
> implementation of the OMG Transaction Service specification.
|
|
> The OpenORB Transaction Service features are :
|
|
> Management of distributed transactions with a two phase
|
|
> commit protocol
|
|
> Sub Transactions management ( nested transactions )
|
|
> Propagation of the transaction context between CORBA objects
|
|
> Management of distributed transactions propagation through
|
|
> databases with the XA protocol
|
|
> Automatic logs to be able to make recovery in case of failures
|
|
> Can be used as a transaction initiator or subordinate
|
|
> High-performance, multiple thread architecture
|
|
> Developed with POA
|
|
> Provides a management interface to control all transactions
|
|
> Full support of JTA
|
|
> JDBC pooling and automatic resource enlistment
|
|
>
|
|
>
|
|
> Download
|
|
> To download the OpenORB Transaction Service, do one of the
|
|
> following :
|
|
> CVS : you can use CVS to grab the sources directly.
|
|
> FTP : you get either a CVS snapshot or a prebuilt version
|
|
> To use one of these possibilities, go to the Download Services page.
|
|
>
|
|
> ChangeLog
|
|
> August 15th 2001. Version 1.2.0.
|
|
> Changed the transaction client side to support late binding
|
|
> to the transaction monitor.
|
|
> Bug fixed in the transactional client interceptor. This bug
|
|
> was due to a change in the OpenORB behavior concerning the slot
|
|
>
|
|
>
|
|
> To get previous change log, please refer to the CHANGELOG
|
|
> file available within this service distribution."
|
|
>
|
|
> ---------------------------(end of
|
|
> broadcast)---------------------------
|
|
> TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
|
|
>
|
|
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
|
|
|
|
---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
|
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TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your
|
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joining column's datatypes do not match
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From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45247@postgresql.org Sat Oct 11 08:38:03 2003
|
|
Return-path: <pgsql-hackers-owner+M45247@postgresql.org>
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Received: from svr4.postgresql.org (svr4.postgresql.org [64.117.224.192])
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for <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:38:01 -0400 (EDT)
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(envelope-from jtv)
|
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Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:36:25 +0200
|
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From: "Jeroen T. Vermeulen" <jtv@xs4all.nl>
|
|
To: Dann Corbit <DCorbit@connx.com>
|
|
cc: Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@acm.org>, pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
|
|
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit
|
|
Message-ID: <20031011123624.GA97612@xs4all.nl>
|
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Mail-Followup-To: Dann Corbit <DCorbit@connx.com>,
|
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Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@acm.org>, pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
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References: <D90A5A6C612A39408103E6ECDD77B8294CE1EC@voyager.corporate.connx.com>
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X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org
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Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org
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Status: OR
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|
|
On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 09:37:53PM -0700, Dann Corbit wrote:
|
|
> Why not apply the effort to something already done and compatibly
|
|
> licensed?
|
|
>
|
|
> This:
|
|
> http://dog.intalio.com/ots.html
|
|
>
|
|
> Appears to be a Berkeley style licensed:
|
|
> http://dog.intalio.com/license.html
|
|
>
|
|
> Transaction monitor.
|
|
|
|
I'd say this is complementary, not an alternative to 2PC implementation
|
|
issues.
|
|
|
|
The transaction monitor lives on the other side of the problem. 2PC is
|
|
needed in the database _so that_ the transaction monitor can do its job.
|
|
|
|
That said, having a 3-tier model is probably a good idea if distributed
|
|
transaction management is what we want. :-)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jeroen
|
|
|
|
|
|
---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
|
|
TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
|
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subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your
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message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
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From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45298@postgresql.org Mon Oct 13 15:55:48 2003
|
|
Return-path: <pgsql-hackers-owner+M45298@postgresql.org>
|
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Received: from www.postgresql.com (209.204.46.200.psinetpa.net [200.46.204.209] (may be forged))
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by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9DJtkd05408
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for <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:55:47 -0400 (EDT)
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Received: from postgresql.org (svr1.postgresql.org [200.46.204.71])
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for <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:54:58 -0300 (ADT)
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Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message
|
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Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit
|
|
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:54:53 -0700
|
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MIME-Version: 1.0
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Thread-Topic: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit
|
|
Thread-Index: AcOP9Fpw1EtLlhHkTKKwePp/YkaQTgBzmnCQ
|
|
From: "Dann Corbit" <DCorbit@connx.com>
|
|
To: "Jeroen T. Vermeulen" <jtv@xs4all.nl>
|
|
cc: "Christopher Browne" <cbbrowne@acm.org>, <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
|
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Status: OR
|
|
|
|
> -----Original Message-----
|
|
> From: Jeroen T. Vermeulen [mailto:jtv@xs4all.nl]
|
|
> Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 5:36 AM
|
|
> To: Dann Corbit
|
|
> Cc: Christopher Browne; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
|
|
> Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit
|
|
>
|
|
>
|
|
> On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 09:37:53PM -0700, Dann Corbit wrote:
|
|
> > Why not apply the effort to something already done and compatibly
|
|
> > licensed?
|
|
> >
|
|
> > This:
|
|
> > http://dog.intalio.com/ots.html
|
|
> >
|
|
> > Appears to be a Berkeley style licensed:
|
|
> > http://dog.intalio.com/license.html
|
|
> >
|
|
> > Transaction monitor.
|
|
>
|
|
> I'd say this is complementary, not an alternative to 2PC
|
|
> implementation issues.
|
|
|
|
My notion is that the specification has been created that describes how
|
|
the system should operate, what the API's are, etc. I think that most
|
|
of the work is involved in that area. The notion is that if you program
|
|
to this spec, it will already have been well thought out and it should
|
|
be standards based when completed.
|
|
|
|
> The transaction monitor lives on the other side of the
|
|
> problem. 2PC is needed in the database _so that_ the
|
|
> transaction monitor can do its job.
|
|
|
|
Theoretically, if any database in the chain supports 2PC, you could make
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all connected systems 2PC compliant by using the one functional system
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as a persistent store. But you are right. PostgreSQL still would need
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the "I promise to commit when you ask" method if it is to really support
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it.
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I think another way it could be handled is with nested transactions.
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Just have the promise phase be an inner transaction commit but have an
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outer transaction bracket that one for the actual commit.
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> That said, having a 3-tier model is probably a good idea if
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> distributed transaction management is what we want. :-)
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In real life, I think it is _always_ done this way.
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---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
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TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
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From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45310@postgresql.org Mon Oct 13 20:18:25 2003
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by 205.178.180.9 with SMTP; 14 Oct 2003 00:10:32 -0000
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Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit
|
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From: Rod Taylor <rbt@rbt.ca>
|
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To: Dann Corbit <DCorbit@connx.com>
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cc: "Jeroen T. Vermeulen" <jtv@xs4all.nl>,
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Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@acm.org>,
|
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PostgreSQL Development <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
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In-Reply-To: <D90A5A6C612A39408103E6ECDD77B829408BF5@voyager.corporate.connx.com>
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Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-b4H+7106Ap3EF98tkvjh"
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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:11:08 -0400
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--=-b4H+7106Ap3EF98tkvjh
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Content-Type: text/plain
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> I think another way it could be handled is with nested transactions.
|
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> Just have the promise phase be an inner transaction commit but have an
|
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> outer transaction bracket that one for the actual commit.
|
|
|
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Not really. In the event of a crash, most 2PC systems will expect the
|
|
participant to come back in the same state it crashed in.
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|
|
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Our nested-transaction implementation (like our standard transaction
|
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implementation) aborts all transactions on crash.
|
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|
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--=-b4H+7106Ap3EF98tkvjh
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hpvlKlmUIzIA38T5R62+Ts8=
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=xuTB
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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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--=-b4H+7106Ap3EF98tkvjh--
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From pgsql-hackers-owner+M45319@postgresql.org Mon Oct 13 22:15:41 2003
|
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Return-path: <pgsql-hackers-owner+M45319@postgresql.org>
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id 1A9Ehw-0004TJ-00; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:14:45 -0700
|
|
From: Jordan Henderson <jordan_henders@yahoo.com>
|
|
To: Rod Taylor <rbt@rbt.ca>, Dann Corbit <DCorbit@connx.com>
|
|
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit
|
|
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:13:53 -0400
|
|
User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3
|
|
cc: "Jeroen T. Vermeulen" <jtv@xs4all.nl>,
|
|
Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@acm.org>,
|
|
PostgreSQL Development <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
|
|
References: <D90A5A6C612A39408103E6ECDD77B829408BF5@voyager.corporate.connx.com> <1066090267.46588.14.camel@jester>
|
|
In-Reply-To: <1066090267.46588.14.camel@jester>
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|
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Status: OR
|
|
|
|
On Monday 13 October 2003 20:11, Rod Taylor wrote:
|
|
> > I think another way it could be handled is with nested transactions.
|
|
> > Just have the promise phase be an inner transaction commit but have an
|
|
> > outer transaction bracket that one for the actual commit.
|
|
>
|
|
> Not really. In the event of a crash, most 2PC systems will expect the
|
|
> participant to come back in the same state it crashed in.
|
|
>
|
|
|
|
Yes, this is correct. There are certain phases of the protocol in which the
|
|
transaction state must be re-instated from the log file after a crash of the
|
|
DB server. The re-instatement must occur prior to any connections being
|
|
accepted by the server. Additionally, the coordinator must be fully
|
|
recoverable as well. The coordinator may, depending on the phase of the
|
|
commit/abort, contact child servers after it crashes. The requirement is
|
|
that during log replay, the transaction structures might have to be fully
|
|
reconstructed and remain in-place after log replay has completed, until the
|
|
disposition of the (sub)transaction is settled by the coordinator. All
|
|
dependent on the phase of course.
|
|
|
|
> Our nested-transaction implementation (like our standard transaction
|
|
> implementation) aborts all transactions on crash.
|
|
|
|
Jordan Henderson
|
|
|
|
|
|
---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
|
|
TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend
|
|
|
|
From JanWieck@Yahoo.com Tue Oct 14 00:21:11 2003
|
|
Return-path: <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
|
|
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for <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:21:09 -0400 (EDT)
|
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by europa.janwieck.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9E4L1311359;
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|
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Message-ID: <3F8B7990.60207@Yahoo.com>
|
|
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:20:32 -0400
|
|
From: Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
|
|
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624
|
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X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
|
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MIME-Version: 1.0
|
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To: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
|
|
cc: Tatsuo Ishii <t-ishii@sra.co.jp>, andrew@libertyrms.info,
|
|
pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
|
|
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit
|
|
References: <200310100053.h9A0rkl23681@candle.pha.pa.us>
|
|
In-Reply-To: <200310100053.h9A0rkl23681@candle.pha.pa.us>
|
|
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
|
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
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Status: OR
|
|
|
|
Bruce Momjian wrote:
|
|
|
|
> Tatsuo Ishii wrote:
|
|
>> > Yes. I don't think that 2PC is a solution for robustness in face of
|
|
>> > network failure. It's too slow, to begin with. Some sort of
|
|
>> > multi-master system is very desirable for network failures, &c., but
|
|
>> > I don't think anybody does active/hot standby with 2PC any more; the
|
|
>> > performance is too bad.
|
|
>>
|
|
>> I'm tired of this kind of "2PC is too slow" arguments. I think
|
|
>> Satoshi, the only guy who made a trial implementation of 2PC for
|
|
>> PostgreSQL, has already showed that 2PC is not that slow.
|
|
>
|
|
> Agreed. Let's get it into 7.5 and see it in action. If we need to
|
|
> adjust it, we can, but right now, we need something for distributed
|
|
> transactions, and this seems like the logical direction.
|
|
>
|
|
|
|
Are you guy's kidding or what?
|
|
|
|
2PC is not too slow in normal operations when everything is purring like
|
|
little kittens and you're just wasting your excess bandwidth on it. The
|
|
point is that it behaves horrible and like a dirty backstreet cat at the
|
|
time when things go wrong ... basically it's a neat thing to have, but
|
|
from the second you need it it becomes useless.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan
|
|
|
|
--
|
|
#======================================================================#
|
|
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
|
|
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
|
|
#================================================== JanWieck@Yahoo.com #
|
|
|
|
From peter.galbavy@knowtion.net Tue Oct 14 05:00:23 2003
|
|
Return-path: <peter.galbavy@knowtion.net>
|
|
Received: from mailstore-1.mail.knowledge.com ([213.170.2.69])
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id 1A9L2A-0004lK-00; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:00:02 +0100
|
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Message-ID: <004601c39231$8db3f5e0$2f28a8c0@cblan.mblox.com>
|
|
From: "Peter Galbavy" <peter.galbavy@knowtion.net>
|
|
To: "Jan Wieck" <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>, "Bruce Momjian" <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
|
|
cc: "Tatsuo Ishii" <t-ishii@sra.co.jp>, <andrew@libertyrms.info>,
|
|
<pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
|
|
References: <200310100053.h9A0rkl23681@candle.pha.pa.us> <3F8B7990.60207@Yahoo.com>
|
|
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 2-phase commit
|
|
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:59:58 +0100
|
|
Organization: Knowtion Ltd.
|
|
MIME-Version: 1.0
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charset="Windows-1252"
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X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
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Status: OR
|
|
|
|
Jan Wieck wrote:
|
|
> 2PC is not too slow in normal operations when everything is purring
|
|
> like little kittens and you're just wasting your excess bandwidth on
|
|
> it. The point is that it behaves horrible and like a dirty backstreet
|
|
> cat at the time when things go wrong ... basically it's a neat thing
|
|
> to have, but from the second you need it it becomes useless.
|
|
|
|
I can't see anyone being forced to use it once it maybe/is supported. Like
|
|
many tools, "ouch!" is a good reaction when used untrained/incorrectly.
|
|
|
|
Peter
|
|
|