mirror of
https://git.postgresql.org/git/postgresql.git
synced 2024-08-21 16:53:25 +02:00
408 lines
18 KiB
Plaintext
408 lines
18 KiB
Plaintext
From pgsql-hackers-owner+M4145@postgresql.org Sat Feb 3 05:54:06 2001
|
|
Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28])
|
|
by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id FAA22302
|
|
for <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 05:54:04 -0500 (EST)
|
|
Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28])
|
|
by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f13Ap4q95132;
|
|
Sat, 3 Feb 2001 05:51:04 -0500 (EST)
|
|
(envelope-from pgsql-hackers-owner+M4145@postgresql.org)
|
|
Received: from mail.retep.org.uk ([216.126.85.184])
|
|
by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f13AnIq94863
|
|
for <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 05:49:18 -0500 (EST)
|
|
(envelope-from peter@retep.org.uk)
|
|
Received: from heather.retep.org.uk ([193.113.118.193])
|
|
(authenticated)
|
|
by mail.retep.org.uk (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f13AlnO94823;
|
|
Sat, 3 Feb 2001 05:47:49 -0500 (EST)
|
|
(envelope-from peter@retep.org.uk)
|
|
Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010203103036.009efec0@mail.retep.org.uk>
|
|
X-Sender: peter@mail.retep.org.uk
|
|
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2
|
|
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 10:46:24 +0000
|
|
To: Alex Pilosov <alex@pilosoft.com>, tomasz konefal <twkonefal@yahoo.ca>
|
|
From: Peter Mount <peter@retep.org.uk>
|
|
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] TODO list: Allow Java server-side programming
|
|
Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
|
|
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.10.10102021453160.9372-100000@spider.pilosoft.c
|
|
om>
|
|
References: <20010202194049.38902.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com>
|
|
Mime-Version: 1.0
|
|
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
|
|
Precedence: bulk
|
|
Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org
|
|
Status: OR
|
|
|
|
At 14:57 02/02/01 -0500, Alex Pilosov wrote:
|
|
>On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, tomasz konefal wrote:
|
|
>
|
|
> > could someone please clarify what "Allow Java
|
|
> > server-side programming" actually means? what are the
|
|
> > limitations of using java and jdbc with pgsql?
|
|
>
|
|
>It means to embed Java interpreter inside postgres, and allow writing
|
|
>stored procedures and triggers in Java.
|
|
|
|
Thats correct. Basically you are talking of something like PL/Java. The
|
|
Java side would be simple, but its linking the JVM to the backend that's
|
|
the problem.
|
|
|
|
It's been a while since I delved into the backend, but unless it's changed
|
|
from fork() to threading, I don't really see this happening, unless someone
|
|
who knows C that well knows of a portable way of communicating between two
|
|
processes - other than RMI. If that could be solved, then you could use JNI
|
|
to interface the JVM.
|
|
|
|
I know some people think this would slow the backend down, but it's only
|
|
the instanciation of the JVM thats slow, hence the other reason fork() is
|
|
holding this back. Ideally you would want the JVM to be running with
|
|
PostMaster, and then each backend can then use the JVM as and when necessary.
|
|
|
|
Obviously you wouldn't want a JVM in every installation, but there are a
|
|
lot of good reasons to have this capability. For example, as part of the
|
|
course I did this week, we used Tomcat (Servlet/JSP/Web server). Now
|
|
there's no reason why Tomcat could run within the same JVM. JBoss is
|
|
another good example (EJB Server). The JBoss team have actually got Tomcat
|
|
to run within the same JVM. Doesn't hinder performance at all, but does
|
|
reduce the memory footprint.
|
|
|
|
This is a good future thing to look into (why not for 8.0 ;-) ). If we
|
|
could find an _optional_ way of hooking the backend direct into the JVM, we
|
|
could get PostgreSQL into a lot of new areas. It also would make things
|
|
like CORBA etc a doddle.
|
|
|
|
PS: I'm writing down notes of the course to go onto the JDBC web site this
|
|
weekend, so there's some nice things for EJB, RMI, Corba etc.
|
|
|
|
More later, Peter
|
|
|
|
|
|
From pgsql-hackers-owner+M4153@postgresql.org Sat Feb 3 11:54:12 2001
|
|
Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28])
|
|
by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA13446
|
|
for <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 11:54:12 -0500 (EST)
|
|
Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28])
|
|
by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f13GrZq17345;
|
|
Sat, 3 Feb 2001 11:53:35 -0500 (EST)
|
|
(envelope-from pgsql-hackers-owner+M4153@postgresql.org)
|
|
Received: from mailout04.sul.t-online.com (mailout04.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.18])
|
|
by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f13GnZq17000
|
|
for <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 11:49:37 -0500 (EST)
|
|
(envelope-from peter_e@gmx.net)
|
|
Received: from fwd06.sul.t-online.com
|
|
by mailout04.sul.t-online.com with smtp
|
|
id 14P5rE-0000zq-00; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 17:48:16 +0100
|
|
Received: from peter.localdomain (520083510237-0001@[212.185.245.12]) by fmrl06.sul.t-online.com
|
|
with esmtp id 14P5r6-0YvD60C; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 17:48:08 +0100
|
|
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 17:56:33 +0100 (CET)
|
|
From: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
|
|
To: Peter Mount <peter@retep.org.uk>
|
|
cc: Alex Pilosov <alex@pilosoft.com>, tomasz konefal <twkonefal@yahoo.ca>,
|
|
<pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
|
|
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] TODO list: Allow Java server-side programming
|
|
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010203103036.009efec0@mail.retep.org.uk>
|
|
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0102031746220.8648-100000@peter.localdomain>
|
|
MIME-Version: 1.0
|
|
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
|
|
X-Sender: 520083510237-0001@t-dialin.net
|
|
Precedence: bulk
|
|
Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org
|
|
Status: OR
|
|
|
|
Peter Mount writes:
|
|
|
|
> Thats correct. Basically you are talking of something like PL/Java. The
|
|
> Java side would be simple, but its linking the JVM to the backend that's
|
|
> the problem.
|
|
|
|
I've tried that recently, here's how it looks as far as Linux JVMs go:
|
|
|
|
* Kaffe has a very polluted name space. Calls to its own functions get
|
|
resolved to PostgreSQL, and vice versa. Crash and burn result. The Kaffe
|
|
folks have admitted that this should be fixed but I didn't look farther
|
|
yet.
|
|
|
|
* The Sun/Blackdown JVM didn't work at all (not even 'java -version')
|
|
until I upgraded my libc. Then a simple test run crashes with an "error
|
|
external to JVM"; at first it looked like a segfault when referencing a
|
|
string constant. In gdb I saw myself faced with about 10 threads running
|
|
when nothing was going on yet, at which point I was too exhausted to
|
|
proceed.
|
|
|
|
* IBM's offering didn't work at all. I don't recall the problem anymore
|
|
but I think it didn't even link correctly.
|
|
|
|
So currently I don't see how this could become a mainstream project, let
|
|
alone across platforms.
|
|
|
|
> I know some people think this would slow the backend down, but it's only
|
|
> the instanciation of the JVM thats slow, hence the other reason fork() is
|
|
> holding this back. Ideally you would want the JVM to be running with
|
|
> PostMaster, and then each backend can then use the JVM as and when necessary.
|
|
|
|
But how do the other languages cope? Starting up a new Perl for each
|
|
backend can't be so cheap either.
|
|
|
|
--
|
|
Peter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net http://yi.org/peter-e/
|
|
|
|
|
|
From pgsql-hackers-owner+M4154@postgresql.org Sat Feb 3 12:37:02 2001
|
|
Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28])
|
|
by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA00813
|
|
for <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 12:37:01 -0500 (EST)
|
|
Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28])
|
|
by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f13Haiq21225;
|
|
Sat, 3 Feb 2001 12:36:44 -0500 (EST)
|
|
(envelope-from pgsql-hackers-owner+M4154@postgresql.org)
|
|
Received: from spider.pilosoft.com (p55-222.acedsl.com [160.79.55.222])
|
|
by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f13HX9q20913
|
|
for <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 12:33:09 -0500 (EST)
|
|
(envelope-from alex@pilosoft.com)
|
|
Received: from localhost (alexmail@localhost)
|
|
by spider.pilosoft.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09231;
|
|
Sat, 3 Feb 2001 12:36:01 -0500 (EST)
|
|
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 12:36:01 -0500 (EST)
|
|
From: Alex Pilosov <alex@pilosoft.com>
|
|
To: Peter Mount <peter@retep.org.uk>
|
|
cc: Alex Pilosov <alex@pilosoft.com>, tomasz konefal <twkonefal@yahoo.ca>,
|
|
pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
|
|
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] TODO list: Allow Java server-side programming
|
|
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010203103036.009efec0@mail.retep.org.uk>
|
|
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.10.10102031220470.10437-100000@spider.pilosoft.com>
|
|
MIME-Version: 1.0
|
|
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
|
|
Precedence: bulk
|
|
Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org
|
|
Status: OR
|
|
|
|
On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, Peter Mount wrote:
|
|
|
|
> It's been a while since I delved into the backend, but unless it's
|
|
> changed from fork() to threading, I don't really see this happening,
|
|
> unless someone who knows C that well knows of a portable way of
|
|
> communicating between two processes - other than RMI. If that could be
|
|
> solved, then you could use JNI to interface the JVM.
|
|
There are many ways one can do this:
|
|
a) each backend will have a JVM linked in (shared object). This is the
|
|
way perl/tcl/ruby is embedded, and it works pretty nice. But, Java
|
|
['s memory requirement] sucks, therefore, this may not be the optimal
|
|
way.
|
|
|
|
> I know some people think this would slow the backend down, but it's
|
|
> only the instanciation of the JVM thats slow, hence the other reason
|
|
> fork() is holding this back. Ideally you would want the JVM to be
|
|
> running with PostMaster, and then each backend can then use the JVM as
|
|
> and when necessary.
|
|
b) since JVM is threaded, it may be more efficient to have a dedicated
|
|
process running JVM, and accepting some sort of IPC connections from
|
|
postgres processes. The biggest problem here is SPI, there aren't a good
|
|
way for that JVM to talk back to database.
|
|
|
|
c) temporarily, to have quick working code, you can reach java using hacks
|
|
using programming languages already built into postgres. Both TCL (tcl
|
|
blend) and Perl (JPL and another hack which name escapes me) are able to
|
|
execute java code. SPI is possible, I think both of these bindings are
|
|
two-way (you can go perl-java-perl-java). Might be worth a quick try?
|
|
-alex
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
From pgsql-hackers-owner+M4164@postgresql.org Sun Feb 4 04:23:42 2001
|
|
Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28])
|
|
by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id EAA04260
|
|
for <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 04:23:41 -0500 (EST)
|
|
Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28])
|
|
by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f149Nhx75443;
|
|
Sun, 4 Feb 2001 04:23:43 -0500 (EST)
|
|
(envelope-from pgsql-hackers-owner+M4164@postgresql.org)
|
|
Received: from me.tm.ee (adsl895.estpak.ee [213.168.23.133])
|
|
by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f149Mgx75338
|
|
for <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 04:22:42 -0500 (EST)
|
|
(envelope-from hannu@tm.ee)
|
|
Received: from tm.ee (IDENT:hannu@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
|
|
by me.tm.ee (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01488;
|
|
Sun, 4 Feb 2001 11:18:09 +0200
|
|
Message-ID: <3A7D1E51.E383AB7F@tm.ee>
|
|
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 11:18:09 +0200
|
|
From: Hannu Krosing <hannu@tm.ee>
|
|
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.17 i686)
|
|
X-Accept-Language: en
|
|
MIME-Version: 1.0
|
|
To: Peter Mount <peter@retep.org.uk>
|
|
CC: Alex Pilosov <alex@pilosoft.com>, tomasz konefal <twkonefal@yahoo.ca>,
|
|
pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
|
|
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] TODO list: Allow Java server-side programming
|
|
References: <20010202194049.38902.qmail@web12003.mail.yahoo.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010203103036.009efec0@mail.retep.org.uk>
|
|
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
|
|
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|
Precedence: bulk
|
|
Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org
|
|
Status: OR
|
|
|
|
Peter Mount wrote:
|
|
>
|
|
> At 14:57 02/02/01 -0500, Alex Pilosov wrote:
|
|
> >On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, tomasz konefal wrote:
|
|
> >
|
|
> > > could someone please clarify what "Allow Java
|
|
> > > server-side programming" actually means? what are the
|
|
> > > limitations of using java and jdbc with pgsql?
|
|
> >
|
|
> >It means to embed Java interpreter inside postgres, and allow writing
|
|
> >stored procedures and triggers in Java.
|
|
>
|
|
> Thats correct. Basically you are talking of something like PL/Java. The
|
|
> Java side would be simple, but its linking the JVM to the backend that's
|
|
> the problem.
|
|
>
|
|
> It's been a while since I delved into the backend, but unless it's changed
|
|
> from fork() to threading,
|
|
|
|
Someone posted here recently his port/tweaks of backend so that it used
|
|
threads instead of fork(). IIRC it was done to be used inside a java
|
|
client in an embedded system.
|
|
|
|
----------------
|
|
Hannu
|
|
|
|
From pgsql-hackers-owner+M4168@postgresql.org Sun Feb 4 06:54:27 2001
|
|
Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28])
|
|
by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id GAA19741
|
|
for <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 06:54:26 -0500 (EST)
|
|
Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28])
|
|
by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f14BsOx83329;
|
|
Sun, 4 Feb 2001 06:54:24 -0500 (EST)
|
|
(envelope-from pgsql-hackers-owner+M4168@postgresql.org)
|
|
Received: from mail.retep.org.uk ([216.126.85.184])
|
|
by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f14Bs9x83240
|
|
for <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 06:54:09 -0500 (EST)
|
|
(envelope-from peter@retep.org.uk)
|
|
Received: from heather.retep.org.uk ([193.113.241.180])
|
|
(authenticated)
|
|
by mail.retep.org.uk (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f14BqkR83161;
|
|
Sun, 4 Feb 2001 06:52:46 -0500 (EST)
|
|
(envelope-from peter@retep.org.uk)
|
|
Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010204114942.00a0c8d0@mail.retep.org.uk>
|
|
X-Sender: peter@mail.retep.org.uk
|
|
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2
|
|
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 11:51:21 +0000
|
|
To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
|
|
From: Peter Mount <peter@retep.org.uk>
|
|
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] TODO list: Allow Java server-side programming
|
|
Cc: Alex Pilosov <alex@pilosoft.com>, tomasz konefal <twkonefal@yahoo.ca>,
|
|
<pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
|
|
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0102031746220.8648-100000@peter.localdomain>
|
|
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010203103036.009efec0@mail.retep.org.uk>
|
|
Mime-Version: 1.0
|
|
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
|
|
Precedence: bulk
|
|
Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org
|
|
Status: OR
|
|
|
|
At 17:56 03/02/01 +0100, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
|
|
>Peter Mount writes:
|
|
>
|
|
> > Thats correct. Basically you are talking of something like PL/Java. The
|
|
> > Java side would be simple, but its linking the JVM to the backend that's
|
|
> > the problem.
|
|
>
|
|
>I've tried that recently, here's how it looks as far as Linux JVMs go:
|
|
|
|
[snip]
|
|
|
|
|
|
>So currently I don't see how this could become a mainstream project, let
|
|
>alone across platforms.
|
|
|
|
I don't think it would be, but it would be a good side-project. Over time
|
|
the various JVM's should become better to interface with.
|
|
|
|
|
|
> > I know some people think this would slow the backend down, but it's only
|
|
> > the instanciation of the JVM thats slow, hence the other reason fork() is
|
|
> > holding this back. Ideally you would want the JVM to be running with
|
|
> > PostMaster, and then each backend can then use the JVM as and when
|
|
> necessary.
|
|
>
|
|
>But how do the other languages cope? Starting up a new Perl for each
|
|
>backend can't be so cheap either.
|
|
|
|
But a lot cheaper than Java.
|
|
|
|
Peter
|
|
|
|
|
|
From pgsql-hackers-owner+M4169@postgresql.org Sun Feb 4 06:57:24 2001
|
|
Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28])
|
|
by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id GAA19817
|
|
for <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 06:57:23 -0500 (EST)
|
|
Received: from mail.postgresql.org (webmail.postgresql.org [216.126.85.28])
|
|
by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f14BvLx83711;
|
|
Sun, 4 Feb 2001 06:57:21 -0500 (EST)
|
|
(envelope-from pgsql-hackers-owner+M4169@postgresql.org)
|
|
Received: from mail.retep.org.uk ([216.126.85.184])
|
|
by mail.postgresql.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f14Bv7x83611
|
|
for <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 06:57:07 -0500 (EST)
|
|
(envelope-from peter@retep.org.uk)
|
|
Received: from heather.retep.org.uk ([193.113.241.180])
|
|
(authenticated)
|
|
by mail.retep.org.uk (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f14BtjR83557;
|
|
Sun, 4 Feb 2001 06:55:45 -0500 (EST)
|
|
(envelope-from peter@retep.org.uk)
|
|
Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010204115139.009f1c50@mail.retep.org.uk>
|
|
X-Sender: peter@mail.retep.org.uk
|
|
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2
|
|
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 11:54:20 +0000
|
|
To: Alex Pilosov <alex@pilosoft.com>
|
|
From: Peter Mount <peter@retep.org.uk>
|
|
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] TODO list: Allow Java server-side programming
|
|
Cc: Alex Pilosov <alex@pilosoft.com>, tomasz konefal <twkonefal@yahoo.ca>,
|
|
pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
|
|
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.10.10102031220470.10437-100000@spider.pilosoft.
|
|
com>
|
|
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010203103036.009efec0@mail.retep.org.uk>
|
|
Mime-Version: 1.0
|
|
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
|
|
Precedence: bulk
|
|
Sender: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org
|
|
Status: OR
|
|
|
|
At 12:36 03/02/01 -0500, Alex Pilosov wrote:
|
|
>On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, Peter Mount wrote:
|
|
|
|
[snip]
|
|
|
|
|
|
> > I know some people think this would slow the backend down, but it's
|
|
> > only the instanciation of the JVM thats slow, hence the other reason
|
|
> > fork() is holding this back. Ideally you would want the JVM to be
|
|
> > running with PostMaster, and then each backend can then use the JVM as
|
|
> > and when necessary.
|
|
>b) since JVM is threaded, it may be more efficient to have a dedicated
|
|
>process running JVM, and accepting some sort of IPC connections from
|
|
>postgres processes. The biggest problem here is SPI, there aren't a good
|
|
>way for that JVM to talk back to database.
|
|
|
|
That was my other idea, but it is the IPC thats problematical. You would
|
|
still need to do some native api to implement some messaging system between
|
|
the two.
|
|
|
|
However, at the other extreme there is RPC, which is possible now, but
|
|
would be a lot slower.
|
|
|
|
|
|
>c) temporarily, to have quick working code, you can reach java using hacks
|
|
>using programming languages already built into postgres. Both TCL (tcl
|
|
>blend) and Perl (JPL and another hack which name escapes me) are able to
|
|
>execute java code. SPI is possible, I think both of these bindings are
|
|
>two-way (you can go perl-java-perl-java). Might be worth a quick try?
|
|
|
|
Might be one way to go...
|
|
|
|
Peter
|
|
|
|
>-alex
|
|
>
|
|
|
|
|